NVA Transcripts

There has been quite some interest in the interviews with me about my time in the NVA and Bundeswehr. Turns out some people prefer reading over listening (hello Simone 👋), so here is the text of both transcripts:

Part I: NVA

Announcement

Ian: A quick announcement to my UK listeners. I’m going to be at the Hack Green Nuclear Bunker Cold War Living History event on April the 8th and the 9th. It would be great to see you there. There’s a link in the episode notes.

Preamble

Ian: This is Cold War Conversations. If you’re new here, you’ve come to the right place to listen to first-hand Cold War history accounts. Do make sure you follow us in your podcast app or join our emailing list at www.coldwarconversations.com.

Ian: Steffen was born in Karl-Marx-Stadt and was conscripted into the NVA, the East German Army, in 1988. When he left school he started an apprenticeship for electronics, learning how to build radio receivers at REMA, a then famous producer of hi-fi equipment. Steffen is called up at 18 for his 18-month service and he talks of the conscription process and the incentives offered to him to serve for a longer period. He is posted to a unit in Leipzig which was responsible for telephone lines from the NVA headquarters for the area south of Berlin. He describes the training he took and the role he carried out including installing phones for NATO intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty inspectors. In the summer of 1989 many citizens of East Germany flee the country via the now semi-open Hungarian border and Steffen describes heightened tension within the army. Don’t miss next week’s episode where Steffen continues his story as the country falls apart and the Berlin Wall opens.

Support

Ian: The battle to preserve Cold War history is ongoing and your support can provide me with the ammunition to continue to keep this podcast on the air. Via a simple monthly donation you’ll become one of our community and get a sought after Cold War Conversations drinks coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing that you’re helping to preserve Cold War history. Hi, this is Tree from Berlin. I believe it’s so important and interesting to hear these stories from that period, good and bad. Books will tell you so much but the real life stories from people who were there make it so real. If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea we also welcome one-off donations via www.coldwoconversations.com. I’m delighted to welcome Steffen to our Cold War conversation.

Introduction

Steffen: I was born in 1970 in Karl-Marx-Stadt which is now called Chemnitz but during the years it was Karl-Marx-Stadt after the famous philosopher. I grew up having a probably typical East German childhood. I was the only child of my two parents and they were doing regular jobs so nothing fancy there.

Ian: It’s just you and your parents in the family, yeah?.

Steffen: Exactly, yeah.

Ian: What job did they have in East Germany?.

Steffen: My father is a mathematician or he worked in some institute not too closely affiliated with the state. My mom was actually also in a production company. She did some secretary services and some calculations on the energy sector, stuff like that, regular office jobs.

Ian: Neither of them were members of the party per se?.

Steffen: No, they were not. My parents, actually also including me, they were not resistant or so. They were also not in the party. It was more like I think with most of the people in the GDR just trying to get by. My mom actually had her own little history of not being allowed to study because she did not do the Jugendwehr. Which is the thing that comes out of the communist tradition where instead of the church thing that you do with 14, they had some alternative thing governed by the state. Because she didn’t want to do that, she didn’t want to do the Jugendwehr, she was not allowed to study. That maybe raised her resistance a little bit but not in a real way that she was doing forbidden things or so. It was more like on a private level and similar for my dad. They were sort of neutral and trying to get around in life.

The presence of the Stasi

Ian: From my interviews that I’ve done is that people are sort of expecting the Stasi at every corner and the ever oppressive state. But the vast majority of people were just getting on with their life as they could in the same way that people were in the West. And just sort of accepted the way things were.

Steffen: Sort of, right. I mean that’s I think probably one of the most frequent discussions when you get even nowadays that people still discuss. On one hand, it was sort of clear that there was always the possibility that somebody you’re talking to might be with the Stasi. Or might be giving reports to the Stasi as an unofficial member. On the other hand, we were friends with people and you just couldn’t think of them doing something like that. As many, many people saw after the wall came down, I was actually more frequent than we thought at GDR times. That was pretty surprising for me. Thankfully, I didn’t have such thing. I did look up my Stasi files and I did not see anything that anybody said something bad about me or so. It was very, very thin. But yeah, I know many other people who had bad surprises.

Family relations in the West

Ian: Did your family have any relations in the West at all or not?.

Steffen: Yes, actually they did. Not very close. I think the closest one was an aunt my mother had. And actually she was able to visit her when her aunt turned 80, I believe, in 87. Also from my father’s side, we had some relatives maybe not too close. And my parents actually also always made a point about not hiding that. It was kind of a protection for not being asked to join the party or getting into jobs that were too close to the state. They always told me never hide that and make sure you mention that all the time so they cannot say you hid it and you did bad things.

School life

Ian: And what was your school life like, Steffen?.

Steffen: So I did the regular 10 years of school education that everybody had like a secondary school. And until I turned maybe 15 or so, I had no intention to do grammar school or A levels. And I wanted to basically get an apprenticeship and get what I thought at this point a real job. And I remember telling my parents, I don’t want to end up in a lab being in one of these white coats and doing theoretical things. I want to do some practical stuff. Yeah, but before that school was sort of uneventful for me. I just got by and had some minor troubles, but nothing serious.

Ian: Did you play much sport or anything at school?.

Steffen: Not too much. I was into bicycling a little bit and also a lot of electronics, which I later had my apprenticeship in and also studied later on. But that was more or less not involved with school. There were central places called Pionier House or, again, organized by the state where you could get together and do something about your hobby. I think I was there for maybe a year or two, but mostly it was not for me. I was more happy with doing this by myself and with a friend.

Military training at school

Ian: Was there any military training at your school?.

Steffen: Yes, there was actually. I think at the age of 14, most male children had to go to, I think, for a week or so to this pre-training. They already tried to convince you to do more than the usual 18 months of military service. That was, by the way, a topic all the time. Through your whole childhood in the GDR, it was always about training the army and going for more than the 18 months. I basically resisted that all the time because I couldn’t see myself shooting other people. That was not the biggest thing, but at least part of the story for me. Also, physical activities, I did them, but I did not particularly enjoy them. Military was always about physical stuff all the time, so I just couldn’t see myself there. I had a pretty clear vision of what I wanted to do in life, and military service just was a necessary evil that I had to do at one point.

Steffen: Actually, in school, I managed to not having to do that. We were just too many boys in our class, so there was not enough space in getting to this one week of military education, and three of us had to stay home. In the same week, the girls had, I think, some medical training, like first aid and stuff like that. We were joining them, which was actually good fun. It was a useful skill to have, more useful than knowing how to shoot. I enjoyed that.

Apprenticeship

Ian: You mentioned an apprenticeship. Where did you end up doing that, and what was the apprenticeship about?.

Steffen: I was into electronics a lot as a child, and I wanted to do that as my regular job. With most people in the GDR, if you weren’t doing your A levels and study, you would get an apprenticeship. I don’t know the percentage, but I think the vast majority was going that route. You would have 10 years of school education, and then two or three years of apprenticeship, and then you would just start your regular job life. For me, there weren’t too many companies around us offering apprenticeships for what I wanted to do. My marks in school were not that great, so I was between two and three all the time, which was one the best and five the worst.

Steffen: These apprenticeships for electronics and radio mechanic and all that kind of stuff, they were sought after a lot, so I did not see myself having high chances. When I was looking around, there were basically two places that were indicating before that when I visited them together with my dad. They were saying, yeah, we could see you here. There are others with better marks, but maybe it works out. You had to put in some papers. I applied actually at two places, and the second place, which was my favorite, was REMA Stollberg. Actually, I would say in the GDR, a pretty famous producer of radios, radio receivers, and they didn’t take me. They said, we found somebody who has some worse marks than you, but is willing to do 25 years of military service so we can fulfill our quota, and sorry, not for you.

Steffen: I was going back to that other place, and they were actually saying, you can get in. I was in that other place, and funny enough, they didn’t do the education themselves, so they sent me to that other place, to REMA Stollberg. They had wide eyes when they saw me on day one. Before that, they said, you can’t come, and then I was going in through that other company, sending me over there for my apprenticeship. I ended up in the place where I wanted to go, but with some detours, so to say.

REMA Stollberg

Ian: REMA were making Hi-Fi equipment as well, weren’t they?.

Steffen: True, yeah.

Ian: Was it a very popular brand in East Germany for electronics, radios, and Hi-Fi?.

Steffen: It’s hard for me to say, absolutely, because many products in the GDR were always rare, not because of their quality, because everything was, maybe except cabbage, everything was rare. But I think from learning a little bit about them, and also from what I heard from others, from friends or so, do you get access to some of these radios?. Can you buy one for me and such?. The image these radios had, especially maybe in the 60s and 70s, were very, very good, so people were liking them a lot.

Steffen: And I had this funny story. As part of my apprenticeship, you had to basically rotate a couple of places who were doing different things in that company. So part of that was, I think, maybe six weeks or even two months of being in the research and development department. And until than, I had seen other parts of that company and doing some work on the production line and other places. And there was this one radio everybody was speaking the highest of. This is the best of what we can do. And everybody was proud of that thing. And when I came to that research department, you had your regular coffee conversations with people, and I was talking to two of the engineers over there. And I was saying,, I’m so in love with this particular radio and such a good thing and the quality is so good. And they were just looking at me saying, that’s a design of the Western company Grundig from 1972. That was 15 years old. That was the highest and the best that the GDR could produce. And that’s 15 years after what West Germany was producing. So that was quite devastating for me at this time.

Ian: So were they copying West German designs?.

Steffen: That’s hard to say for me. I have no definitive information about this. I would suspect so, because there was many,, like transistors and chips and such were being copied. At the same time, there was also quite some engineering going on that clearly was not copied and also basically general ingenuity of people. So maybe parts of that, but I can’t really tell for sure.

NVA is calling

Ian: At what age do you get called up into the East German Army?.

Steffen: Between 18, which was like the earliest they could call you. And I think 25 was the latest they could call you. So there were very rare cases of people becoming 26 and not having been called before that. And you were basically free then. And yeah, actually, that was one of the main fears I had when planning my job. Then after the apprenticeship, I was thinking, what do I do after,, exiting the apprenticeship and what would my life look like?. And actually, during the apprenticeship, I developed some more appreciation for what before that I called,, being in the lab in a white coat. And I didn’t want to do that. Actually, I found out that the more interesting jobs, at least more interesting to me, were actually those exclusively of people who went to study.

Steffen: So I developed that idea. Maybe that’s for me. And then I found out that the GDR had this sort of, it was not a written down rule, but practically it was like that:. You were basically not allowed to study before actually serving the army. I think it was kind of an unwritten rule. So I was actually fearing while still being an apprentice, I was fearing,, it could be that I’m 25 and they would call me for 18 months. So when I’m exiting, I’d be 27. And starting studies at 27 was like that looked too late for me. I was unsure about that thing. And I was often offered an escape then that I actually took.

Ian: So what age were you when you got your notice?.

Steffen: I think shortly before my 18th birthday. And that was pretty normal. You would get this call to where to go and such. And I was getting this invitation for master in summer and spring in 88. And that was around the time when I had made up my mind that I actually want to study. There was this commission of people. I sort of knew from other people how this is going to go. There’s the medical part where they sort of inspect you and test you and all of that. And then there was the final part, which was like the final attempt to convince you of doing more than your 18 months.

The decision to serve three years

Ian: What incentives did they give you to convince you to do more than 18 months?.

Steffen: Yeah, funny enough, that was the first time that somebody ever offered me something concrete. Until then, it had always been like, you got to do it for socialism and everybody who’s going to value themselves, they do something more. And society paid for all your education and now you get to give something back. It was always about this glorious way of us together. We were building to socialism and all of that. And there was never any discussion about any advantages you would have or any perks you would get from doing longer than that. And that was the first time when I went in and they didn’t even ask. They were just looking into their papers saying,

“OK, we see you’re close to finalizing your apprenticeship. Have you considered doing more than your 18 months?” And I said yes, considered it, but it’s not really for me and I have plans.”

Maybe that was my mistake to say that I wanted to study. And that’s when one of these people, I can’t remember one of the three, basically said like,

“oh, you want to study. So,, how are you going to do that?. Because,, it could be a long time until you get to serve the army and then you can study.” And I was saying, “yeah, not sure that’s a problem”.

And then they started offering me: “maybe if you could consider doing three years instead of 18 months, we could offer you…” I think it was basically three things:

1. They offered me to call me right away in autumn. So in the same year, basically six months after these talks,
2. They offered me to place me somewhere relatively near my hometown, which was another problem for many of the conscripts. You could end up somewhere near the Baltic Sea or in the middle of Brandenburg or some place where it takes you a long, long time to get home, where there is no other life than your barracks. And,, these 18 months would be like a boring time at best, maybe even worse.
3. And the third they offered me, which was actually the most intriguing for me, they offered to put me into something where I could make use of my skills as an electronics worker, so to say.

This is the answer to all of my troubles, right?. I would get to do these three years. Yeah, it’s double the time, of course, but I would get to do them maybe in an easier way than 18 months in the middle of nowhere. I would get to continue doing what I enjoyed, and that was electronics, and not being too far away from home actually was also nice. So I actually something that I never did again. I decided on the spot on this day when they called me in that I want to do this and actually signed.

And my parents were shocked, right?. They were saying like, how could you do that?. How could you do that?. Like yesterday, you were sure that,, it’s 18 months and nothing else, and you had your plans and all of that. And today you’re coming back saying you’re doing three years. And it was not like signing with the devil, but it was seriously something they had their eyes wide open,, in disbelief. So I remember that very well.

Ian: But did they understand that,, you were seeing this as a learning opportunity and coming out with some better qualifications?.

Steffen: I think after discussing it and,, explaining them my reasoning and all of that, they understood. But I also remember my my dad actually telling me something that I obviously like,, did not forget because it was so it was so obvious that I thought,, why didn’t I think of that?.

He was saying, OK, you signed some paper for doing three years. What paper did you get from them?. Right. You got promises. Like,, in in in talking, do you have anything in writing?. And I thought, oh, no, he’s right. Right. They they just fooled me. I will end up somewhere totally different in some totally totally different environment. And,, maybe as a tank commander or so, and that was actually pretty pretty much horror for me to to think like they fooled me.

And but actually to take that look in advance, all of that became true. Right. I mean, that was that was not often that people kept their promises like officially in the GDR, but they kept all of their promise. That was surprising, actually. So I trusted sort of that was my only way out. Right. I had signed and I trusted. OK, somehow this will work out and it did work out. So that was even then surprising.

Basic military training

Ian: So did you still have to do the same training that every NVA soldier did?. Or did this role mean that you could skip that?.

Steffen: I think for me, it was quite different for for many reasons. So no, I did not have to do all of the training. The regular career path for for what I was called in for, like doing three years, you were you were considered a like a noncommissioned officer for a limited time. And usually everybody had to go through six months of pretty harsh training where you had like all of the physical things. And you also had to like your whatever you’re specializing in. Like for me, it would have been electronics and for others, it would have been, I don’t know, like,, how to drive a tank or whatever else.

And there were two things that helped me here. First of all, in this year, in 88, they made a change in the calendar when they were calling in the conscripts. And they changed it to September and March. And so I think 89 was the last time they called in people in March. And the good the good thing for me was it seems like nobody was prepared for that. They were all the place I ended up in. Also scheduled for November and May, getting these few people in in September was apparently a big surprise. And they didn’t plan a lot for us. So I had to do six week basic education. I was told later, pretty relaxed. So I think I did the obstacle course maybe once or twice. And I never had to stand guard and all of the regular stuff. I just didn’t have to do it because of schedule things. And then, of course, also because of the role they had planned for me to be in what I had to do there.

Ian: But you still had basic weapons training, I’m presuming.

Steffen: Yes, we had that. But I tried to count at one point, it must have been less than 20 or so shots I ever fired in my life. Ammunition was always short and nobody was eager to do more than necessary. And for me, it was after the basic training. I think I did once or twice again, a repetition of that. But that was it. So it wasn’t a big deal.

Signal battalion

Ian: And what were your fellow comrades backgrounds in the unit? Where had they come from?.

Steffen: So it was basically a signal battalion. And that signal battalion was associated to the sort of high command for everything south of Berlin. So we were maintaining the phone lines and the phone system and telegraphs and all of that. That battalion was sort of split into half, half people working in the open and half people working in encryption services. And these encryption services, that was a crazy world. So we were living in the barracks together with sort of a separation, but not too much. And then in the morning, when you went into the place where you did your work, they were basically going beyond another like iron door and nobody was even allowed to have a look into all of that. And so there was lots of secrecy around that. Later on, I heard that they had very strict regimes about all of that encryption stuff and key exchange and all of that. So that was the first time I was ever in touch with that.

But I was in the open part, so I actually did not get to see much of that only after the wall came down and most of that was opened. But there was a lot of secrecy. So whenever you had people sitting together and drinking beer or so, there was one point where the conversation stopped. People were saying, yeah, we cannot talk about this. And that was strange because normally if you’re in a private setting, there wasn’t that much that couldn’t be talked about. But this one was always a strange thing. So I don’t know that much about the background of these people. I think they were checked much more thoroughly than people like me or my friends. That was a crazy sort of divide that we had.

Stasi background checks

Ian: Yeah, I was going to ask you what sort of checks they did on you before you had this role. Did they do any form of background check on you that you were aware of?. Did your Stasi file show any of that?.

Steffen: The Stasi files did not show anything. And I did not have to hand in any special things. So I would have expected they asked me, I don’t know, to write down a letter laying out my relatives in West Germany or whatever else. Maybe they knew about this already. And that was one thing.

The only two things that were kind of strange and happening was a couple of weeks after I had signed up for the three years of service, my parents, who like most of the people in the GDR, had an application out for getting a telephone, which was not a normal thing. You just couldn’t just get a telephone in the GDR. Maybe, I don’t know, one in 20 people or one in 50 or so had a phone at home. But everybody had an application in because sometimes maybe you get one. And then suddenly, a couple of weeks after I had signed up, my parents were getting this phone. And we were like, what is that?. And I didn’t make the connection back then. My parents, they told me later they made that connection. I never saw anything that would confirm that this was the reason. But that was the first thing I saw,, maybe there’s a relation here. I remember even when I think it was the first time, it was still GDR time when I came back from the army for vacation. And I started to tell a little bit about the details. My father was actually taking a sofa cushion and put it on top of the telephone. He was not a person who was afraid of that many things. But at this point, I was looking at him, what are you doing?. And he was just saying, just to be sure.

Ian: An interesting connection there. It makes you wonder whether they perhaps wanted to have some way of listing in on your calls. Just to see what contacts there were going on with the West.

Steffen: I don’t know. It’s an interesting one. It’s probably something we’ll never know, right?. Because like you said, the Stasi file, I looked this up and either it was destroyed, but I’m sure it wasn’t important enough that somebody was actively trying to destroy anything about me in like in 89. And then the other thing that happened was also after the wall fell down, a fellow family was living with us in the same,, we were living in one of these Neubau blocks or,, we had six stories, but there was somewhat 11 or even 20 stories. And we were living in those with six stories and 12 families in that house.

For every house that had to be kept, what they call the “house book” or some kind of registry, when you had visitors, they had to sign in. I don’t think we ever did that when we had visitors, but at least it was officially required. And after the wall came down, that family who was running this registration within our house, they came to my parents saying,, just before I think they said summer 88 or something like that. So it must have been shortly before I was called. There were these strange people and asking things about Steffen and,, things about you. And so apparently the Stasi did some checks. I don’t know. It’s in relation to my to my service there. Again, I didn’t find anything in my files. Actually, now that we’re talking, I think my parents were checking their files as well. And they did not have anything either. So either way, it’s I don’t know.

Ian: You were potentially in quite a sensitive role here because you’re working on the communications. For a major command post of the of the East German Army. For me, I guess it wouldn’t be surprising that they did do some further checks on you.

Steffen: It’s possible.

Ian: Did you ever get access to your East German Army file after the fall of the war?. Was that ever possible for you to see that or not?.

Steffen: Maybe I was naive at this time, but I didn’t even think that there was a file about me. Right. I mean, obviously, they must have something like,, what’s what’s what’s his name and what’s his.

Ian: They’ve got that piece of paper you signed, Steffen. That’s all it was.

Steffen: But I didn’t even try. So actually, that’s a good question. Maybe I should I should I should try it if if there is something about me.

Ian: Yeah, I don’t know whether you can get access to it. Probably I’d just be fascinated to see whether there’s any other mention of,, anything else in in there. I don’t know. So with with your role, I mean, what is the day to day job like?. What are you doing day to day?.

Daily army business

Steffen: So we were a group of five people in with similar background than I had. Everybody was doing their three years and had a plan to study within the immediate group that I was working in. Our responsibility was basically the the phone system itself, at least partially. We had a civil employee that was doing most of the work. He was way more more qualified to do that than we were like,, our just our apprenticeship and being 18 or 19. So he did most of the work. But but all of the like,, maintenance of going to some of these offices of the generals or,, the high officers when the phone is broken. Or when some of their their stuff wasn’t working well, we had to go there and exchange either the phone or repair it in place or whatever was necessary.

And then there were also these like central systems where,, all the cables were coming in and being routed to whatever place within the barracks and all of that. So maintaining that was a large part of our job. And this was like a 24 hour job. So you had to be like not only in the barracks, but also at your desk, so to say, for 24 hours.

And then there were two days of being off. And then again, 24 hours. That was kind of a regular scheme. And it wasn’t always like that. But most most times were like that. And you could actually normally sleep during the night. So it wasn’t that bad. But you had to be on on basically on on the watch always. If there was something going on. And it could be some some general at home. Finding out that that his phone wasn’t working and we had to go out. That was very rare. But it happened because the phones in their private homes were also maintained and owned by by the NVA. And so we had to go there as well. But it happened very rarely. But it was possible that this was necessary.

And therefore we had to be available at all times. One person had to be available at all times. That was basically divided between the five of us. So there was somebody like me coming in,, needed to be on boarded. And educated and all of that. And somebody were always on the way out because they were close to their three years. And making sure they leave all of the all of the knowledge there. So that was kind of what was split between the five of us.

East German phone system

Ian: I seem to remember reading somewhere that some of the East German phone system. Was still the same infrastructure from sort of like the Nazi era. I mean, was it an old infrastructure in East Germany?.

Steffen: Actually, two friends of mine. I’m still friends with two of the five people. Both of them were doing their apprenticeship with Deutsche Post, which was the kind of service provider of a phone and letter services and all of that. And they have a much better picture. And what they told me and what seems to be in line with what I also read at these times. Is that most of the public infrastructure like what Deutsche Post had was indeed very, very old, mostly mechanical stuff that you had some relays and stuff that was really,, like maybe not World War II, but,, not much, not much newer. But the funny thing was that the NVA had pretty modern stuff for GDR standards.

So, for instance, the phone exchange that we were running, it was,, I mean, you would laugh nowadays, but it was from the 60s. So it was only 20 years old when I came there. So that was relatively young. And then we also had some of the systems for basically multiplying or multiplexing phone calls. Onto regular lines like PCM and other stuff. That was maybe from the mid 80s or so, maybe three years old or five years old. Again, all,, on the level of what GDR did do. So for GDR standards, that was pretty, pretty up to date. So that was not bad. So you probably would have to be with Stasi or some research lab or so. If you wanted to work on newer stuff within the GDR. But that was all right. That was good fun.

Allied military liaison missions

Ian: Were you made aware of the Allied military liaison missions in East Germany. And to watch out for them snooping around?.

Steffen: Not directly. So it was not part of the education. So we didn’t know anything about,, that. I mean, of course, everybody knew that the Russians could do what they wanted. Nobody told us that actually the French and the British and the US. Could actually also get around and do something. But I was involved with that kind of stuff once, which I remember also very lively because it was a big event for me at this point.

There was a secret code word that if you were on these 24 hours thing on this rotation, you always had to have a backup who didn’t have to be with you like physically, but the backup had to be within the barracks and be available within like 20 minutes or whatever that was. And one of the roles of the backup was, of course,, if you fell ill during your duties to back you up, like it was said. But the other role was, actually, I had to do this then once. The other role was when the secret code word was coming in via phone. It was like in a spy movie, right?. You were getting called and can’t remember what the code word was, but something like rocket inspection, which turned out to be,, funny enough, close to what was actually happening. And then you would have to call your backup.

Codeword Raketeninspektion

Steffen: And I think it was in early 89 when this happened. I was actually the one that was the backup and I was called in. So I was giving a driver who would drive me together with a phone, some of these funny GDR phones into one of the hotels in downtown Leipzig. There was this driver. Actually, I think he even had a weapon with him. I can’t remember exactly. And I was sitting next to him in a Trabant with that phone, with that orange phone on my knees.

Our mission was to go to that Interhotel and install the Army phone in one of the bedrooms. What turned out then, I was told later on, all of that was about, is exactly for the Allies. And I think for some international inspection program, there was a foreign, I can’t remember. Some inspector was arriving in Leipzig with the mission to do some of these rocket inspection things, like how many SS-20 or whatever the Russians had in the GDR was inspecting that. And for him or her staying overnight, there had to be one of these phone lines to be available. And of course, all of the hotels in GDR time didn’t have a direct connection to the NVA phone system. And the purpose of me was actually going there, installing that phone, testing it and making sure it works. And then, of course, get out again. That was a funny thing. So first, you get to leave the barracks, which was not something you could do every day.

And then the second one was awkward, walking into this fancy hotel with beautiful people all around you. And you would be there in your Army dress and with this crazy phone under my arms and getting into these rooms. And like I said, it was like a spy movie. I went to the desk and saying like, Raketeninspektion. What? Oh, sorry. Hold on for a moment. Then they were looking up. Apparently, they were inspected too. And they knew what to do. That was fun.

Tensions are rising in 1989

Ian: Yeah, it sounds like these could have been people who were checking on the INF, the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty that had been signed a few years before. And it was part of those inspection teams. So as sort of 88 moves into 89, are you sensing that East Germany is changing or there’s any tensions out there?.

Steffen: I think I was pretty late in realizing there was something going on. I think the earliest I really understood there was something going on was maybe in summer 89. You saw this in TV that people were fleeing GDR through Hungary and such. But that was not seen as, at least I didn’t see this as a big turnaround. It was sort of an escalation and something that hasn’t happened in that, at least not with that many people before.

But I think I first realized there was something strange going on. So as I said before, we were not allowed to leave the barracks every day because we were only serving these three years. And we were treated more like conscripts than real officers or sergeants or whatever. And then suddenly there was this sort of order saying on Mondays, you cannot go out at all anymore. You had to apply. You had to get one of these tiny tickets in order to leave the barracks. And there was this order saying, no, on Monday, it’s not possible anymore. And OK, why that? I didn’t understand it. And then somebody was telling me, yes, of course, it’s because of the demonstrations and I said, what?. And then I started looking a little bit closer and talking to others. And it turned out there was what then turned into these Monday demonstrations in Leipzig. That was the reason they had become so big that they feared any of us taking part. That would have been crazy. I would have never done that. I’m too risk averse, probably.

But again, also not having any interactions by chance by somebody just walking by. Because it was deep in the city center. And part of leaving the barracks was always going for some food somewhere or having a beer or so. And that was naturally quite in the city center. And so it could have happened very easily that I would walk into some of these groups and then somebody taking photos or whatever would not have looked good.

Watching West German TV in the barracks

Ian: So you had very little way of knowing what was going on outside. So being in the army, there was no way you could watch West German TV or listen to Western radio.

Steffen: We found a way, but that was very high risk. So there was one TV for each, I don’t know, maybe 50 people or maybe even 30 people. And they were all sealed with these plastic seals that you weren’t able to change the channels at all. But then somebody, I can’t remember exactly how, got hold of one of these stamps that you got. So we were actually able to change it and actually watch some Western television. But there was always a ceremony about this.

Somebody had to be literally on the watch trying to watch out for somebody walking in who was not clear or not OK with watching Western television. So yes, we did that, but not on a regular basis and certainly not during that time. Because you could see the tension arising also within the NVA. All of the officers, most of them were pretty close to the state. I think it was like it was basically not possible to get the next rank without being in the party. And I think that was pretty soon that maybe you could get promoted once or twice. And then after that, it was impossible to get promoted without being in the party. So most of them were like,, we kept on saying these are the red people. They have red ears or whatever the slang was. And you could see the tension arising among them as well.

I can’t remember exactly whether we did not or did do this. But it was certainly not something like you did every night, like at home. I mean, my parents and me, we were watching almost exclusively West German television because the East German stuff was just unbearable. But we couldn’t do that while in the barracks.

Ian: I’m intrigued to know what you chose to watch in the barracks.

Steffen: There was just two possibilities. There was GDR 1 and GDR 2.

Ian: But what about the Western when you had somebody,, on watch to make sure you weren’t interrupted?. What Western TV did you choose to watch then?.

Steffen: I don’t remember us watching as any of the,, like RTL or Sat1 or whatever private companies were arising then. So it must have been the first and the second program like ARD and ZDF, pretty sure that was one of the two of them.

Ian: So were you watching like TV serials like Dallas?.

Steffen: I think the only thing I remember pretty lively is that we were watching the news, of course,, for obvious reasons. But I was never much into movies, so I’m not sure if I would have even stayed instead of,, I don’t know, reading a book or doing some of my hobby stuff or so. I was into photography at this time, and I was even allowed to bring a camera into the barracks, but,, all sealed. And then I have to give them into somebody else watching for it. And then when I left, I could take it and take it with me and all of that. So it was OK for spending your time, but I can’t remember watching like movies or so. Maybe and surely others have done it, but it didn’t. If I did it, it didn’t impress me much.

No photos of demonstrations

Ian: So did you take many photos during that period?.

Steffen: Not in not in 89. So I was again not,, I didn’t have the guts to do that. So I stayed away from from most of that and,, from I think from September, maybe August, even I think it was even August in 89. We were not allowed to go out on Monday anymore. And,, because I had to hand in my my camera again when I when I entered the barracks again, I was mostly making sure that I’m not getting into any trouble.

Since,, from my family and also from my other background, I was I was not one of these people in resistance. I had no intention to do any anything like that. Most of my photos from that time were more like personal stuff. And,, Leipzig Zoo is pretty well known. I did take a lot of photos there and countryside and all of that. But nothing interesting from from a historic perspective, so to say.

Ian: We’re in that period when the demonstrations are going on. And I think you get called to do a certain job on the 7th of October 1989. Can you just take us through that?.

Preview to next episode

Ian: Sorry, folks, you’re just going to have to wait another week for the next episode where Steffen describes the end of East Germany and his induction into the Bundeswehr, the West German Army. Don’t miss the episode extras such as videos, photos and other content. Just look for the link in the podcast information. The podcast wouldn’t exist without the generous support of our financial supporters. And I’d like to thank one and all of them for keeping the podcast on the road. If you’d like to help the project, just go to Cold War Conversations dot com slash donate. The Cold War conversation continues in our Facebook discussion group. Just search for Cold War Conversations in Facebook. Thanks very much for listening and see you next week. Thank you.

Part II: Bundeswehr

Teaser

Steffen: That felt like a spy movie, where you’re close to the world coming to an end.

Preamble

Ian: This is Cold War Conversations. If you’re new here, you’ve come to the right place. To listen to first-hand Cold War history accounts. Do make sure you follow us in your podcast app. Or join our emailing list at ColdWarConversations.com.

Introduction

We continue Steffen’s story where he tells of serving in three armies. We start the episode in the autumn of 1989, where demonstrations are growing against the government in nearby Leipzig. And Steffen’s unit is on high alert and confined to barracks. It is clear that East Germany is on the cusp of change, however, what will be the impact on Steffen and his comrades?. He describes these tense days when rumours abounded. Of military action against the demonstrators, as well as how he heard about the fall of Honecker. And the opening of the border.

We also hear about his experiences as the NVA transitions. After the first free elections in East Germany. And momentum builds for reunification. Steffen accepts a place in the new unified German army. And we hear about the momentous day when command is handed over to the Bundeswehr. And how he has to learn a different way of thinking. Such as the new doctrine of personal responsibility.

Support

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October 1989

Ian: I’m delighted to welcome Steffen to our Cold War Conversation.

Steffen: From one of the first days of October when we were put on high alert. So basically none of the conscripts were able to leave the barracks anymore. And the officers were like they couldn’t leave their hometown anymore. So there was tension arising everywhere and it was very clear. That something was going on and everybody who went home to visit their family. Came back with these messages saying have you heard that and have you heard that?.

And then on 7th of October which was probably one of the most critical days. And there was clearly something going on with the Monday demonstration. I think there must have been like in the tens of thousands at this point in time in Leipzig. So it was clear something would happen at least that’s what we thought. And we also had some contacts into other barracks near us. Which had way more people than us and we were told by them. That actually they had the trucks lined up near the barracks. Which normally they would not do, they would get it out of garage. For some education or whatever but not on a regular evening or so. And they had lined up their trucks and even handed out the weapons but without ammunition. Which was also kind of strange because normally when you go on some education trip or so. They would hand you out the weapons and then take the ammunition as one big bucket into the truck. And then whatever you did like shooting education or so you would get your ammunition, your personal one.

But at this point at least that’s what we were told, I did not see this with my own eyes. So trucks were lined up, people were still in their rooms in the barracks. And weapons were handed out but nothing else happened.

Planning Games

Steffen: And that must have been the night when I was on duty actually one of these 24-hour shifts. I was getting a call that in one of these situation rooms a phone was broken. So I had to go there and exchange the phone or try to fix it. So I was going over there and my heart of course was beating. I mean it was always a strange situation to be called into one of these general’s offices. Although I have to say it’s probably the same nowadays: The higher the rank the more friendly and intelligent the people tend to be. So I had no, besides many fears, I had no real negative experiences with them. But again given the actual situation, we knew what the GDR looked like. And being called into this situation room, that was a strange thing.

And when I came in there it was indeed like a spy movie. I entered the room and I saw maybe 20 or so generals sitting around maps. What turned out to be the city of Leipzig and they were basically moving around what looked like tin soldiers, with long sticks, and moving them from here to there or so. So I did not spend long enough time to actually find out what’s going on. But I believe from what I saw that they were sort of planning how the army should engage in the city of Leipzig.

That, together with the fact that the trucks were out in the neighbouring barracks, I think there was some planning or at least some game or some preparation they were doing. If they would be called to take the army out into the streets. So I was there for a couple of minutes, I was able to fix the phone and went out again. That felt like a spy movie where you’re close to the world coming to an end.

Ian: Was there any point at which it sounded like you might be called out to assist in putting down these demonstrations or anything like that?.

Steffen: I remember having chatted about this with my comrades, two of them were friends, I knew them pretty well. One had left in summer 1988, so we had this discussion among us. And I remember that we came to the conclusion if anything like that would happen, we would be probably the last being called because of the role we played in the communication system and maintenance of that. So there were so many more people, sadly more educated in running weapons or driving cars than we were. And we weren’t easily replaceable, of course everybody is replaceable.

But if you have a choice of people and I think the NVA had like 100,000 people or so under weapons. That’s quite a lot of people for a small country. So we figured the risk of us being personally involved is probably pretty low at this point in time. That was more like something I thought about when I consider it like in this day in 1988 in spring. Before I signed I considered what is it when they ask you to go to the border. What am I going to do, what am I going to say or what am I going to do then. But in 1989 in Leipzig no, I did not fear that.

Order to Shoot

Ian: Maybe you didn’t have this conversation but did you talk with your friends as to if you were asked to shoot at GDR citizens what you would have done?.

Steffen: Yeah, that was discussed not at this time but before that, long before that just as a general water cooler type discussion. What do you think about this, what about that. And that was also something you were trying to have a very private setting for these kinds of conversations. Because of the risk of Stasi and or even somebody regularly involved with the party who would basically could cause you trouble.

For me I think that was also something that as an answer I saw from others maybe I even took from others. My sort of naive thinking was okay if I was forced in a situation like that. And I knew I was getting in trouble for not shooting I would probably try to shoot and not hit the person that I was asked to shoot. So that was I think a common way of at least in advance trying to deal with a situation like that. I know from books and others that you would also get into trouble finally especially when you were at the border. And you were sort of accused of actually intentionally not hitting that person. But at least until then that was my abstract thinking like yeah if I’m really forced I would probably try to not hit that person. That was my sort of strategy there.

Wende

Ian: As we move into November when did you hear the news that Honecker had gone, do you remember?.

Steffen: Yeah not the date but I know the situation very well because it must have been a Saturday. Because there was this attempt of the GDR leadership to what they called Wende. There was this famous saying by the then the new leader Egon Krenz. “Wir werden die Wende einleiten”, we will make changes and that was already laughable at this time. Trying to stay in control for them. And part of that program and with all this time it feels like it was maybe four weeks or eight weeks. It feels like there was a whole year of things happening.

But one of these things they did was they either promoted more or maybe even founded. Maybe they just promoted more like kind of youth TV program that had been on and off for I think maybe since summer 88 or so. But certainly in 89 they gave that it was called 1199 which turned out to be the postcode for where the studios were. And it felt like MTV to us right young people lots of music and fresh looks and all of that. And they were actually changing their role through October and November 89. And becoming more like questioning things like Wendlitz or where most of Honecker and others were living. And one of these programs on a Saturday I think they were on Saturday was actually when I saw that the wall came down. So I think it was it was not the day it must have been like two or three days later.

So I obviously in that night when this happened we were I think a friend of us were calling us through the regular military line. One of us had a friend in I think in Berlin or so and they were calling us through the open line saying. have you heard this and have you heard that so it was not how I learned to know that the wall came down. But certainly all of the details like what’s on TV and seeing the pictures and all of that. That must have been through 1199 that I saw that.

The Wall is Open

Ian: So you remember hearing about the wall opening, was that the next day you heard about that?.

Steffen: It was not very long after maybe not in the same night but maybe the day after not very long after.

Ian: What is the atmosphere in those days after the wall has opened?.

Steffen: At least twofold maybe even more sort of categories of thinking that there was of course a lot of people who were just going out saying now we’re free and the world belongs to us and all of that.

I was more sort of held back about this because I couldn’t make up my mind what this really means. I was 19 at this time I didn’t know that much about international politics. And I just the only thing that stuck with me during maybe November or even a little bit before that was. There was this idea of having a better GDR that was certainly something that I found interesting. And I wasn’t one of these people who immediately thought okay now I can go to West Berlin. Or leave the GDR for West Germany or whatever that was not on my mind.

But I was more held back and then of course there was the third category people in fear and confusion. Like most of the officers and personnel that was there for a long time. They were just they didn’t understand what’s going on at all they were way more confused than I was. And I think at this point at least I didn’t meet many people who were very clear on what’s going to happen. I mean who could have told right so this was mostly confusion so does it mean we are also allowed to go to West Berlin. Or West Germany or there were these days when they were trying to still ask you. You would have to get a passport and you have to get stamped and that very quickly stopped because it was ridiculous.

But within the NVA I think there was very quickly these three at least what I perceived. These three categories of people like me being like sort of very very held back. And trying to understand what’s going on and then there were these people who were trying to leave as soon as possible. And then those who just didn’t know what’s going on.

A First Visit to the West

Ian: When was the first time you actually crossed into the West?.

Steffen: I think that must have been certainly in winter maybe even 89 but there was one situation when people were taking the train. Going to Bavaria to Bayreuth and Nuremberg and there was a situation in Leipzig when there was some casualties. Maybe even some people going there because there were too many people waiting for the train. And that was the moment when my dad actually offered me: “if you want to go, since you’re in Leipzig, you better come to me take my car and take the car going to Bayreuth and collect your Begrüßungsgeld” and all of that. Because he feared I would be in a similar situation so I think it was maybe in November or December 89.

Ian: And what was your first impression of the West?.

Steffen: It smelled like one of these Intershop places.

Ian: So it smelled of Levis jeans and bottles of Johnny Walker whiskey.

Steffen: And chocolate and soap and all of that, right? When we were getting parcels from West Germany, there was a certain smell to them and of course everybody in the family was excited to open it an see wha’s in there. And there was a similar smell when you went to the Intershop and when we went to Bayreuth to get there.

It was incredible how efficient the West Germans were like these millions of people collecting 100 Deutschmark each. And there was no signs of stress anywhere right they were just handling that. And they had buses taking you from the train station to somewhere else where you would get the money. And there were shops springing up here and there selling you things and there was this chocolate and all of that. There was just there was there was no chaos everything was like very professional and very German really.

The Demonstrations in Leipzig Change Their Character

Ian: As 1989 closes GDR is still there the structure of government is still there. But as you move into the early months of 1990 it starts falling away at that point would that be a correct view?.

Steffen: Yeah I think that’s true for both the NVA as well as the rest of the GDR. Obviously at this time I was still fully engaged in the like as the sort of conscript with all the contractual obligations. And but then of course very quickly they allowed us to leave every night and even sleep outside the barracks. As long as we did our job so to say and but what you could very closely see is that the same sort of confusion. And the same sort of people trying to leave as much as soon as possible. The same thing was going on in the rest of the GDR as well so that was kind of a similar happening going on.

And the other thing that I realized also during this time I was getting way more interested obviously way more interested into what’s going on. in terms of politics and the outside world and everything and like I said before this idea of having a better society. And trying something that hasn’t been done before in the GDR was intriguing to me and that was the sort of the idea of. What these people were looking for in 89 and I found this interesting but more like I started to think about it when. I saw that happening and was way more involved in reading about this in the end of 89. But I also started to visit some of these Monday demonstrations. It must have been maybe in the end of October so it was surely before the wall came down. But it was certainly not like this forbidden situation that you were at risk of being in jail for being there or so. I was not crazy enough for that but so I visited these Monday demonstrations a couple of times between maybe mid-October.

And then I think the last one I was on was in early February or so and you could see a change every week. And in the beginning it was more subtle and then it turned out to be much more quicker and more like bigger steps were taken. So there was a lot you could see like the the flags where people were holding up and all the transparent and everything. with all these sometimes very thoughtful texts they had put on and also what people were shouting. And you could see that slightly changing every week so in the beginning it was about us being free and the freedom of thought. And freedom of expression and then it turned into freedom of travel and I think travel was also a very important part in the very beginning.

And then suddenly I heard, I think it must have been even maybe end of November or so, certainly in December: when there were people starting to ask for German reunification. I think it must have been like I said maybe late November. And you could see that as a regular visitor, you could see that it’s getting more like tha. Before you could mostly see a flag of East Germany, but without the emblem (it was cut out). But then you could see more and more like the regular West German flags coming in and people asking even.

I can’t remember if this was a topic in 89 but certainly in 1990 when they were asking for the day mark and all of that stuff that happened afterwards. And I personally stopped going there in February when Helmut Kohl was visiting Leipzig and they had one of these huge demonstrations where again like 300,000 people or so and they were seriously handing out bananas to people coming to the CDU truck. And that was the end for me I thought okay now it’s lovable what they do here and it was no longer about freedom. It was no longer about ideas it was just about this stuff.

The Third Way

Ian: Because you had these groups like Neues Forum who were looking at sort of like a middle way between. The communism of the SED and the capitalism of the West but eventually they were subsumed by. The huge firepower that parties like the CDU and the SPD brought in that completely overwhelmed them. With promises of loads of money and a golden future I mean did you feel as though you were being. Occupied probably the wrong word but being absorbed into West Germany did you still feel that you had an East German identity. Did you consider yourself German?.

Steffen: Oh no that took a long time for me to consider myself a German no no at this point. Maybe even until I don’t know 91 or so when it was really my idea that this is now our Germany and such. That took a long time but in early 1990s certainly it was all about the GDR at least for me.

And having this what they called the third way and what you said like Neues Forum. I was not involved with these groups but the idea was it was intriguing to me right I thought this is an excellent way. I mean being 19 you’re all about doing crazy experiments and all of that so that was something that was intriguing to me. So it was certainly about there was a chance for at least an experiment maybe even something that would turn out to be successful. But it was pretty clear to me that with the changing attitude of people every Monday. That this was basically this was off the table pretty quickly right the people people voted with their feet. And they were clearly preferring like the short-term things or whatever long-term could have happened.

And so it turned out to be actually a good idea that sort of the professionals took over. Because when in 1991 there was this thing going on in Moscow when Yeltsin tried a coup. That was sort of my last fear within the army, but we’re not there yet.

Reformed NVA

Ian: And so when reunification is announced as sort of like a possibility which I think was March 1990.

Steffen: Yes so the like looking at it from the NVA perspective I think the first thing that happened that was interesting. We were sworn in again right so when you were starting your army thing you had to swear an oath. That you would like fight for communism until the end of your life or whatever that was. And I think the Communist Party was a big part of that I think it was in March 1990 that we were sworn in again. And this time to the constitution of the GDR which was totally like it had existed forever since the GDR was born. But it didn’t play a big role in like everyday life and now there was this ceremony again that we were getting new symbols on our uniforms. we no longer had this hammer… what’s that called?

Ian: hammer and compass and the wheat sheaf.

Steffen: Exactly yeah those symbols of the GDR were gone so we just had we had we had the colors and that was all. And we were sworn in again to the constitution of the GDR and that’s when I said that’s the second army I served in. So that’s the when things were sort of changing but it was not yet clear and it was certainly just starting to be seen that. Maybe there was a reunification and actually before we started here I reached out to a friend who was with me during this time. And he remembered much better than I did and he said that the unification treaty actually that was started to negotiate between the GDR and West Germany. That was actually where it was ruled how things are moving forward for for NVA and all of that. So it took a while until there was a sort of a perspective on who would continue as what and would there be another NVA. Or would there be like only Bundeswehr or would there even be a reunification there was lots of things being discussed. And it can’t exactly tell when everything was clear but maybe during summer or so but maybe not before that.

Ian: And what’s happening with your role at this point because you were supposed to be signed up to 91 weren’t you.

Steffen: Yes my personal plan had been certainly from the very beginning because there was all still GDR. I had been like I said offered these three things that turned out to be true and also part of that was that I was able to sign up for my studies already in 88. So I basically had the registration for starting in 1991 at the university in Chemnitz in my hometown. For me the question was really should I just exit which was possible then. Everybody who had more than 18 months in whatever role were basically free to leave. For many personal reasons it sounded interesting to me to continue there and also I frankly I just enjoyed that job right. I mean I had a couple of friends there later on I even had a flat in Leipzig. Well I just lived like a regular person and it was more like an office job you enter the barracks in the morning. You do your thing and like at five or six you go home and have some more fun so the job itself was fun. I had friends there so there was no real pressure for me to actually having to leave and job wise it was actually still the same. We still had the same phone system and even when it started that you could see some Bundeswehr trucks or cars. Like visiting obviously planning how to hand over things to to Bundeswehr even then I thought. This is something that may be interesting until the end of my three years.

Planning of NVA Handover

Ian: I mean that must have been really strange to see Bundeswehr vehicles in and around your barracks and that red beret of Bundeswehr troops. Could you remember when you first saw these troops and sort of just thought my goodness the world has turned on its head I would imagine.

Steffen: I don’t think it was that much of a big deal for me because I never saw West Germany as the enemy right. So I know other people for them it was unbearable right they had I mean we had rarely seen in any of the educations. We had rarely seen pictures of NATO soldiers or so at least I did not maybe also because I wasn’t involved with a lot of weapon stuff. And such maybe those people had more like pictures or whatever they would look out for but for me I never saw that. And for me it was more like it wasn’t against the enemy but it was more like yeah this is the reason we need to run these phone lines. That was that so yes it was strange to see Bundeswehr cars in our barracks but it wasn’t as earth-shattering as you would think. So I mean at this time so many things were changing anyway we were getting Denmark at the beginning of July in 1990. So there were so many things I think I found it stranger to see Westmark in our barracks than the actual Bundeswehr cars.

Ian: What were your commanders telling you about what your position was going to be after reunification?.

Steffen: Yeah so that was again something that I had discussed with my friend because I didn’t have that much memory about this. But apparently the unification treaty actually ruled that everyone who was serving four or less years would be taken over into the Bundeswehr if they wanted to. That was the kind of rule and everybody was going for more would be under very close scrutiny. And I think only very few of these people were being offered to continue in the Bundeswehr. I know some did but certainly not the majority and I think anything from major even upwards was also not at least not taken over in general. Maybe some individuals but not in general so there was it unfolded I think during summer or so that it was clear that I could stay if I wanted to. There was not a lot of details I believe we didn’t get any information about things like money or whatever else.

It was more like “you can stay if you like” and the only thing that was pretty clear pretty soon was that our ranks would be cut by one level so to say. So I think most people were cut like one of their ranks because it was also more similar to in terms of responsibility of how the Bundeswehr were running things. But that wasn’t that much of a deal for me so that didn’t influence my decision.

I think the only really strange thing that was going on was so we also received new uniforms before the 3rd of October when the Bundeswehr was taking over. All of the barracks and everything and so we received new battle dress and the beret and new boots actually much better boots than we had before. Everybody was getting a pocket knife which was also very funny to see that and it was also by the way this was also a signal right. In the NVA you were always under the impression that nobody’s trusting you at least not from the higher ups there was always this like. I talked about the ammunition before right it was probably for security reasons that you were only handed out ammunition at the very last moment. Even if it was for educational purposes but maybe it was also for the reason that nobody trusted you right so that’s for sure. And then you get into this Bundeswehr thing and the very first thing they give you is maybe not the biggest knife but at least something that is more than you ever had in GDR time.

So that was an interesting thing and what was actually funny was that the only things that we were actually asked to continue using from the NVA are our steel helmet. So that was still the NVA one for at least the one year that I served after unification and also our Kalashnikov rifle it was of course not with us. It was locked away but everybody had their personal one and that was the weapon you had to use in case you had to use a weapon. And was there quite a lot of excitement at getting this new uniform and trying it on and working out what it was all about. So there were more practical questions like which knots would you be using for tying your shoes and this kind of stuff.

And then I remember the new commander in chief was coming in on the 2nd of October the night before unification. And his driver was basically sleeping in our place and so we had a chat with him and that was sort of funny and strange at the same time. And he helped us a lot I think that night of 2nd October to 3rd October we learned a lot of things in the very last minute. How to wear the beret and all of these things and I don’t remember being that much excited particularly. It was really more the practical things that were kind of what we did there. The day before you’re parading in East German uniform and then the day after you have the red beret and the Bundeswehr uniform.

The End of the NVA

Ian: Was there a taking down of the flag ceremony on that last day?.

Steffen: Yes I think they were rolling in the flag and there was one last moment where everybody had to stand in line. And sort of this is the end of the GDR so to say and I remember that more like a strange or maybe even funny situation. That wasn’t much of a ceremony for me at least because everybody knew what was coming. But I think the strangest situation that my friend too was actually on watch during that night. So we had him in front of the barracks and he was actually on duty for that. So when he started his I think it was like 24 hours again so he started that at the end of the day on the 2nd of October. And he started of course in his NVA uniform and then he had his Bundeswehr uniform with him. And in the night he actually changed clothes and in the morning he basically was the Bundeswehr person so to say. That must have been much more strange than it was for me right, this is a one in a kind situation, one of a kind.

Ian: Incredible, incredible and at that, sorry at that flag ceremony when it comes down the day before. Is that the last time you sang the East German anthem, was the East German anthem sung at that point or not?.

Steffen: Oh I don’t remember that, probably not because things like that already changed like when I said in March. When that thing in between that 2nd army time began all these things were toned down a lot right. What used to be a very important thing and everybody has to protect the flag under all circumstances, all of that stuff. That was not the topic anymore, that was never discussed so I don’t think we did any singing or so. Maybe somebody was speaking something or so but it was not a big moment.

Ian: Because I’ve seen film on YouTube and it might have been more hardcore units of the NVA. Who had that final parade with the flag and it was quite a big deal. And I think the anthem was sung on that but I’ll have to have a look at that footage again. I mean were there some people who were upset on that day?.

Steffen: I don’t think so, no. They’d all gone by that point I guess. Exactly, so I think on the 2nd of October you would only still have people left. Who would basically stay on for the new Bundeswehr, everybody else had already left.

Some people went on pension, obviously you also had some very sad stories. I think one of the high officers that we had who was a sharp person and very correct. And was there for a long time, 30 years or so. And he ended up as a security guard in a shopping center 12 months later or so somebody met him there.

And for them of course it was much harder than it was for me being 19. And at the start of something exciting, something new. Because their whole world had just turned over and they no longer had that respect they used to have in society. And also belief, I mean I met a few people, actually surprisingly few. You would have thought that at least the people in the party would be firm believers in the ideas of socialism and everything. And when you get to know these people, maybe not even 10 people I met. Who were really believing in the idea of communism and everything. And who really personally were disappointed that now this is an end or so.

But most people I knew were either relaxed or even excited about the future that’s coming. But this may have been due to the fact that like I said in the beginning our battalion was mostly staffed with very young. Engineering focused people who were there, everybody knew we were here for three years. And then maybe 20% were officers so we didn’t have much close contact with them. So that didn’t play a role for me at least.

Old buildings, new priorities

Ian: Once you’re then part of the Bundeswehr, is that when your new training in their ethos and this inner Führung quality. This inner leadership or this policy of personal responsibility starts to get trained?.

Steffen: Yes indeed, that was pretty soon after. So we had a new commander and a new deputy from 3rd of October basically. So on 2nd of October there was this final ceremony and on 3rd of October the new guy came in. And, hello and that’s me and let’s talk and all of that. Way more human than the GDR leaders were behaving at least in the ranks we were involved with. And also I mean a Bavarian accent right, that’s another thing that was really strange for me at least. To hear from these people.

And very quickly it turned out that humanity is something that is held very highly in the Bundeswehr. At least obviously experiences are different. There’s probably a lot of people having bad experience in the Bundeswehr. But for me having been exposed to what we kept on joking in the GDR times. We get irradiation of red light all the time right, like this indoctrination of communist idea. And we’re here to save the world and nobody believed in that, at least I did not. So it was just boring stuff you had to sit through. And then basically in the same room like a year later somebody else was sitting there. And again let’s talk about the constitution and what are your responsibilities as a soldier. Under the constitution of Bundesrepublik Deutschland. And that was strange in the beginning to get this kind of in a similar setting. To get also to talk about this similar things. But it became pretty soon it became clear that there’s much more reality in what’s being discussed here.

And it was also way more practical right I think pretty soon we discussed like. What are our situations when you actually asked to not follow orders right. When you are not allowed to follow orders and stuff like that. Which would never be enough possible to even touch that topic in the GDR. There was an order was like always an order. There was no way to even think about discussing that. And so yeah that was pretty clear pretty soon that. They at least personally I’m not sure if that was a like a strategic mission. That the Bundeswehr was trying to drive in with the rest of the NVA that stayed. But talking about the constitution and what it means to be a soldier.

And like I said innere Führung all these principles. That was to me looking back a very good idea. Because while the contrast to the GDR was funny in the beginning. It was also helpful looking back to see immediately after the reunification. Okay this is what is different right and that led to resolve a lot of the chaos and uncertainty. And you got to see okay this is at least what’s on paper. And all of the like people how people acted and what you were being asked to do and such. It was there was a lot of a lot more integrity between the constitution and the laws and everything. And everyday life that was that was that was a pretty good experience for me.

Ian: I think when we were chatting before we recorded this. You mentioned to me that you had one-to-ones with your commander. Which would have been unheard of in the NVA.

Steffen: Sort of being treated as an equal human right. And you could talk to them and really feel like asking everything. I had much more trust in doing that with the Bundeswehr commander. Than I would have had with the NVA commander. Maybe also because of the almost three years that I served until. and then I mean these were formative years for me in the age between 18 and 21. There’s a lot of development that you make personally. So maybe that was also an aspect that played a role here. But of course also the personality of people. But there was certainly a contrast.

Old Technology is Kept, For Now

Ian: And were you trained on completely new equipment at that point. Or what was going on as far as your role?.

Steffen: I don’t think my sort of day job ever changed that much during these three years. Because the Bundeswehr was taking over most of the communication lines. At least at this point. I later visited that place again. I still had some friends there. And they showed me the new thing. What used to be like three rooms full of equipment. Was now like one corner of an office. And of course that was funny to see. Which meant way less maintenance. And all sorts of other things. But I think at least until I left which was in August 91. At least until then most of that technology. Like communication lines and all of that. Stayed mostly the same. Obviously the ones going into Moscow were used less. There were new ones going to Bonn and Berlin. But that part stayed mostly the same.

Ian: Because the Soviet army was still in East Germany at that point. But starting to pack up and leave.

Steffen: That’s true and to be honest we didn’t have a lot of connection with them. I mean we had obviously we knew where. Since I was in the open part of the battalion. We communicated a lot with Deutsche Post. So there were open lines. And we always had this like the real names of the cities these lines were going to. And that was something that was not used in the normal GDR, NVA communication. There was always like these secret names of things. And you were not supposed to say like this is in Delitzsch and this is in Dresden. You would have to have to say that like the secret name of that. So when there was communication with the Russians. It was probably more in the encrypted section. And I didn’t get to see that much. And that was of course all torn down in like very early 1990. When the equipment I think was mostly Russian. And the Russians took that with them very early on. Just to make sure it’s not getting into the hands of NATO.

After the Reunification

Ian: What’s happening with your parents at this point?. Have they still got their jobs or are they seeing redundancies or anything like that?.

Steffen: So my parents got divorced shortly before the wall came down. So there was a lot of change for them anyway for both of them, right? So that’s intermixed with whatever happened during this time.

But my dad actually I think it was even in early 1990, he changed jobs again within the institution where he was working. They were looking for basically new leaders that do not have any party history. And certainly not any Stasi connections. And so he was actually promoted pretty quickly within that institution. And because he basically was like free of any problems there. And so he went on quickly after that I think in 1991 or so. He moved into the Ministry of Education in Dresden.

And my mom actually was involved with one of the daughter companies of Treuhand. After the wall came down she quickly changed there. All of the buildings and everything that had to be returned to their previous owners. That couldn’t be done from one day to the other so there was some continuation. But any rent collected and any money that was flowing or so. Had to be preserved for that moment when you give it back to the previous owner. And she was basically doing the calculations for that kind of stuff. So my parents both actually had a good uneventful way of finding their way around there as well.

Ian: And what about your career coming out of. Well you’ve been through the NVA, you’ve been in this interim army and now you’re Bundeswehr. The qualifications that you thought were going to be useful. Are they worth anything in the new Germany?.

Steffen: Certainly not the practical stuff right I mean. The old phone systems from 1960 probably couldn’t. Maybe you could use them in your museum or so. Obviously with all of the personal relations and the experiences I had. And looking back into this time the friendship still stays. Like I said I still have two friends I’m meeting frequently from that time. But apart from that the other plan worked well as I had thought. So in 1991 I started to do my A levels because I was doing this apprenticeship. I didn’t have the right to study so I was doing one year of preparation to get my A levels. And then started to study in 1992 and graduated from Hochschule Mittweida. Which is a small town near Chemnitz in 1996. Almost as planned.

Ian: Yeah just a small matter of a country disappearing in the means.

Steffen: Yeah indeed.

Coup in Moskau, Good Bye Leipzig

Ian: I mean how did you feel that last day in the Bundeswehr?. Did you feel sad that you were leaving that life or were you just looking forward?.

Steffen: So for me it was always sort of that day was three years in the making. So since I had planned to do it that way it was always clear that there would be an end. To that situation by August 1991 and as I indicated earlier.

There was one moment of holding your breath in summer 1991. So from that moment that Helmut Kohl was in Leipzig in early 1990. I was sort of disgusted how those people treated us and how some of my fellow. GDR citizens are actually behaving and what they’re looking for and all of that. So I wasn’t too fond of Helmut Kohl becoming the Chancellor of the Unification and all of that. But then when that coup was going on in Moscow and it was on a table that the military is taking over. And all of that, that was during literally my last days in the Bundeswehr. And I was actually for the first time I was thinking thank God that this unification is all completed.

And now it’s clear that there’s one Germany. Before that I was thinking maybe we should have taken things more slowly. And would have been easier for the people moving over and maybe more jobs could have been kept and all of that. But politically I think it was the right move and I just didn’t see that before. That he always said like the historic hour of if it’s possible and all of that. But indeed I have to say after all these years there was this danger that if the military would have taken over. And they were still deep in the GDR in 1991 they could have closed the border right. They could have re-established GDR very quickly and everything would have come to an end. So I think that that moment was and it actually resolved also during August 91.

So when I left Leipzig everything was good again. Of course you’re leaving friends and all of that that was a sad part. But looking forward and knowing that my studies are going to be starting and all of that. I was actually I was looking forward to do the next thing so that was not sad at all.

Differences NVA / Bundeswehr

Ian: Looking back at your time in the NVA was there anything that you think that the NVA did better than the Bundeswehr?.

Steffen: So one of the major differences I saw I mean obviously when you say what they did better is. better from what perspective, right? I mean obviously they were not treating people better. And so lots of stuff but I think if you look at it from a military perspective. The organization of the NVA was much more strict and much more focused on having a quick reaction. So the fear was always that West Germany would start the tanks and roll over East Germany in whatever three days or so right. So everything was focused on being on alert and being able to being ready to react within N hours or N days or so. And within two weeks they would have mobilized like another two million people. And within six hours the rockets would be ready whatever it was and I think this part quick reaction.

Having people sort of always be ready to react that was something that the GDR did much more strict. Of course at also as an enormous cost so they built houses I think the Bundeswehr did that as well. Built housing close to the barracks so that the officers are living nearby. All of the marriages that were going wrong of the officers because they were moving every two years to a new place. And their wives could not find friends and then all that stuff is probably the sad prices people had to pay for this kind of situation. But if you look at this just certainly from this angle that’s probably something that the GDR and the NVA did more more strict and maybe more efficiently I don’t know.

Ian: I mean when I talked to the BRIXMIS guys the military liaison mission guys one of the things they have always said is. They thought the NVA was far more professional than the Soviet army and certainly in readiness is one of the things they have talked about. That the readiness levels were much higher and they were far more difficult to get information from as well. Whereas a Soviet might be much more easily bribed.

Steffen: I could see that very well the Russians were just poor people right I mean the few moments I had to see how they lived and all of that. This was unbelievably bad.

Epilog

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